Concise Minutes - Local Government and Housing Committee

Meeting Venue:

Committee Room 3

Meeting date: Thursday, 13 June 2024

Meeting time: 09.30 - 11.11
This meeting can be viewed
on Senedd TV at:
http://senedd.tv/en/14709

Hybrid

------

Attendance

Category	Names
Members of the Senedd:	John Griffiths MS (Chair) James Evans MS Luke Fletcher MS (In place of Siân Gwenllian MS) Peter Fox MS (In place of Altaf Hussain MS) Carolyn Thomas MS (In place of Lee Waters MS) Joyce Watson MS
Witnesses:	Rebecca Evans MS, Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Constitution and Cabinet Office Ruth Cornick, Welsh Government Ben Crudge, Welsh Government
Committee Staff:	Catherine Hunt (Clerk) Angharad Era (Deputy Clerk) Rachael Davies (Second Clerk) Ben Harris (Legal Adviser)

<AI1>

1 Introductions, apologies, substitutions, and declarations of interest

1.1 The Chair welcomed Members to the meeting of the Local Government and Housing Committee.

 1.2 Apologies were received from Altaf Hussain MS. Peter Fox MS attended as a substitute for Altaf Hussain MS.

 1.3 Apologies were received from Sian Gwenllian MS. Luke Fletcher MS attended as a substitute for Sian Gwenllian MS.

1.4 Apologies were received from Lee Waters MS.  Carolyn Thomas MS attended as a substitute for Lee Waters MS.

1.4 Joyce Watson MS attended as a substitute.

</AI1>

<AI2>

2 Local Government Finance (Wales) Bill - Stage 2 Proceedings

2.1 In accordance with Standing Order 26.21, the Committee disposed of the following amendments to the Bill:

Amendment 9 (Peter Fox MS) was withdrawn.

Amendment 10 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
	Carolyn Thomas
	Luke Fletcher
Amendment 10 was not agreed.

Amendment 11 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
Luke Fletcher	Carolyn Thomas
As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 11 was not agreed.

Amendment 12 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
Luke Fletcher	Carolyn Thomas
As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 12 was not agreed.

Amendment 13 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
Luke Fletcher	Carolyn Thomas
As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 13 was not agreed.

Amendment 14 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
Luke Fletcher	Carolyn Thomas
As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 14 was not agreed.

Amendment 15 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
Luke Fletcher	Carolyn Thomas
As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 15 was not agreed.

Amendment 16 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
	Carolyn Thomas
	Luke Fletcher
Amendment 10 was not agreed.

Amendment 17 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
Luke Fletcher	Carolyn Thomas
As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 17 was not agreed.

Amendment 18 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
Luke Fletcher	Carolyn Thomas
As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 18 was not agreed.

Amendment 19 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
Luke Fletcher	Carolyn Thomas
As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 19 was not agreed.

Amendment 44 (Luke Fletcher MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
Luke Fletcher	Carolyn Thomas
As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 44 was not agreed.

Amendment 20 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
	Carolyn Thomas
	Luke Fletcher
Amendment 20 was not agreed.

Amendment 1 (Rebecca Evans MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 21 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
Luke Fletcher	Carolyn Thomas
As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 21 was not agreed.

Amendment 22 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
Luke Fletcher	Carolyn Thomas
As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 22 was not agreed.

Amendment 23 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
Luke Fletcher	Carolyn Thomas
As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 23 was not agreed.

Amendment 24 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
Luke Fletcher	Carolyn Thomas
As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 24 was not agreed.

Amendment 5 (Rebecca Evans MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 6 (Rebecca Evans MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 7 (Rebecca Evans MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 8 (Rebecca Evans MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 25 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
	Carolyn Thomas
	Luke Fletcher
Amendment 25 was not agreed.

Amendment 26 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
Luke Fletcher	Carolyn Thomas
As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 26 was not agreed.

Amendment 27 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
Luke Fletcher	Carolyn Thomas
As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 27 was not agreed.

Amendment 28 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
Luke Fletcher	Carolyn Thomas
As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 28 was not agreed.

Amendment 29 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
Luke Fletcher	Carolyn Thomas
As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 29 was not agreed.

Amendment 30 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
Luke Fletcher	Carolyn Thomas
As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 30 was not agreed.

Amendment 31 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
Luke Fletcher	Carolyn Thomas
As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 31 was not agreed.

Amendment 32 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
	Carolyn Thomas
	Luke Fletcher
Amendment 32 was not agreed.

Amendment 33 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
Luke Fletcher	Carolyn Thomas
As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 33 was not agreed.

Amendment 2 (Rebecca Evans MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
John Griffiths	Luke Fletcher
Joyce Watson
Carolyn Thomas
Peter Fox
James Evans
Amendment 2 was agreed.

Amendment 3 (Rebecca Evans MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
John Griffiths	Luke Fletcher
Joyce Watson
Carolyn Thomas
Peter Fox
James Evans
Amendment 3 was agreed.

Amendment 34 (Peter Fox MS) was not moved.

Amendment 35 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
	Carolyn Thomas
	Luke Fletcher
Amendment 35 was not agreed.

Amendment 45 (Luke Fletcher MS) was withdrawn.

Amendment 36 (Peter Fox MS) was withdrawn.

Amendment 37 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
Luke Fletcher	Carolyn Thomas
As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 37 was not agreed.

Amendment 38 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
Luke Fletcher	Carolyn Thomas
As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 38 was not agreed.

Amendment 39 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
Luke Fletcher	Carolyn Thomas
As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 39 was not agreed.

Amendment 40 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
Luke Fletcher	Carolyn Thomas
As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 40 was not agreed.

Amendment 4 (Rebecca Evans MS) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 41 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
Luke Fletcher	Carolyn Thomas
As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 41 was not agreed.

Amendment 43 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
Luke Fletcher	Carolyn Thomas
As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 43 was not agreed.

Amendment 42 (Peter Fox MS)

In Favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Fox	John Griffiths
James Evans	Joyce Watson
Luke Fletcher	Carolyn Thomas
As the vote was tied, the Chair used his casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20(ii)). Therefore amendment 42 was not agreed.

</AI2>

<AI3>

3 Motion under Standing Order 17.42 (vi) to resolve to exclude the public from the remainder of this meeting

3.1 The Committee agreed the motion.

</AI3>

<AI4>

4 Forward work programme

4.1 The Committee agreed to defer business under Items 4 and 5 to the next meeting on 20 June.

</AI4>

<AI5>

5 Committees remits - Letter from Business Committee

5.1 The Committee agreed to defer business under Items 4 and 5 to the next meeting on 20 June.

</AI5>

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